Hey, what’s up there listeners? Welcome back to Traffic Jam, the podcast show that teaches you how to get more traffic and build a profitable audience online. I am of course your host James Reynolds, you’re tuned in to show #42 and we’re mixing things up a little bit this week – decide to go lean and mean on this episode so no One Minute Traffic Tip this week, no This Week’s News in Traffic. Just an intro, a content packed episode and then a Traffic Jam to play out the show.

A couple of shout outs to open up this episode. First of all, Mohit Jean. He sent me an email this week and said, “I just love Traffic Jam and I love the selection of people that you bring on board. Just amazing! You’re doing a fabulous job and the content you share is outstanding,” so a hat tip to you Mohit and I appreciate that.

The second shout out is to Paul Hatton who left me a Speak Pipe message asking all about duplicate content and how it affects SEO. If you like to hear my answer to that question, head on over to SEOSherpa.com, the home to my SEO agency and you’ll get to hear my response. You may just find it useful.

So let us introduce today’s guest. He is Tim Paige and he’s the conversion educator at LeadPages.net which is a piece of software that helps you not just build traffic but build an audience. Does that sound familiar? I think you are going to resonate with today’s episode hugely. A lot of great tips shared by Tim whose hobbies and interest extend to marketing and business according to his pre-questionnaire which he filled out for me which is kind of useful really because that is also what he does for a job as well. So let us get him on. This is Tim Paige the Lead Pages conversion educator, Traffic Jam episode 42.

James: So this is episode #42 and joining me right across, right over there is Tim Paige from Lead Pages and he’s the conversion educator. Tim, welcome!

Tim: What’s going on James? Thank you so much for having me today.

James: Yeah, I am super stoked you can be here. I am going to be a fun chat, let me open up with a question around Lead Pages itself. I am a Lead Pages customer and today I logged in to my account and I could sort by conversion rate by the feature that you have there and I found that 8/10 pages that are performing best in Lead Pages right now are webinar registration pages. Now does that leave us some clues? Are webinars the #1 activity in lead generation right now?

Tim: Yes, I will say yes – but with a caveat. I am absolutely obsessed with webinars and I do almost – I would say I do all of our webinars here at Lead Pages and I would say that they are probably one of the best vehicles for building your business in the world. However, I think that they should only come on the backend of having a great auto-responder sequence because it is really difficult to live by the onetime promotion like the webinar or the sales and the bonuses and the one time price increase all those kind of stuff. Those things are all fantastic and they are great tools to be used but I really believe they should only be used after you have some sort of automated follow up sequence in place that’s making sure that there is marketing happening even when you are not working.

James: Yeah, got it. So what you’re saying is that webinars work best when there is some form of warm up marketing, some authority building on the front end and that it is pretty hard to build traffic to build webinars. Would that be the case?

Tim: Yes and no. Yes, we do drive a lot of traffic through webinars and we do have a lot of success with that but I just think that what happens is that a lot of people will see, they’ll see Lead Pages doing webinars. They’ll see all of these Fortune 500 and these upward companies doing webinars and then they’ll see all of these great information product marketers doing webinars and all these stuff and it all looks so sexy and so cool and we style all these tactics; I mean we have a webinar registration page that is converting at 70% right now and we are getting 30% – 50% closing to sales on webinars and stuff like that. You here these amazing numbers and they’re awesome but the problem is depending on where you’re adding your business, there is a certain point where it only makes sense to do that if you have other mechanisms in place that are taking care of marketing for you so that you don’t live and die by the promotion because again in order to grow and scale in business you have to have some sort of evergreen marketing process in place.

James: Yeah, absolutely! I’d certainly vouch for that. Let’s talk real quick about Lead Pages as a software, perhaps you can just tell us a brief overview of what it does and perhaps how the system came about.

Tim: Yeah, sure. So Lead Pages is a software that just takes the latest and greatest of what has been tested and proven in marketing and does it for you. The thing that we are probably most well-known for is our landing page template. So we have templates for just regular squeeze page landing pages that have been proven to convert incredibly well. We have great webinar registration pages, we have sales pages, and with all kinds of these web pages – we have launch pages and all that, we have this amazing builder that allows you to go in and kind of click on something and change it so if you want to change the headline, great. Click it. If you want to change the image and the background and all that stuff, you can do all of that but they are already laid out and tested and proven to work. But the things that I think I get most excited about are – we have this thing called Lead Boxes and what Lead Boxes are basically it allows you to have an opt in form appear whenever somebody takes an action like clicking on a link or button. So one thing that we found that has been absolutely great to build our list and tons of people using Lead Pages is that if you get rid of that kind of sidebar opt in that everybody’s had forever- you know, we’ve all had this side bar opt in where it says subscribe to get updates and then there is a form for name and a form for email and then click to get updates and everybody has always believed that the key idea there is that if you give people as few steps as possible then you are going to get a higher conversion rate. That might be true under most circumstances, however we found that if you remove that side bar opt in and replace it with something we call a Lead Box, so we just maybe put a banner there or a button, no forms – just a button where somebody clicks it. You know where it says Click Here to Download Our Free Guide – or for updates or whatever that is, and then when somebody clicks it, and then an opt in form appears. So it’s like a pop up box but it only appears when somebody asks for it. We found an increase in conversion rate of about 30% when people do that and it’s really been huge for our business and for a lot of our customers as well. That’s another of our feature. We have been doing everything that we could do to continue improving this process of getting website visitors to take action.

James: Yeah, let me ask you about those Lead Boxes, I mean, that’s a pretty significant increase in performance. Why do you think, that whole active – essentially hiding the whole opt in form behind an action results in so much better conversion increase?

Tim: Yeah, so we kind of refer to this as a two-step opt in so I really believe that the reason why the two-step opt in works better than one-step opt in which is the standard opt in form, there’s three main reasons that we found, and this is not theory by the way. I am kind of behind this practice of I don’t like to spout of theories and concepts and I don’t like to share something that has only been split tested two or three times. I really believe in things that have been tested and proven and we have over a billion points of data to back up anything that I am going to share with you today. So I just want to get that out there – so three reasons. One is we found that when people come to our site, subconsciously, they make that immediate determination whether that page is a giving page or a taking page. And we found that when an opt in page is immediately visible when somebody comes to a site, they look at that as a taking page. And so they go there and they go to your site and they see that there is an opt in form that has an opt in form in the side bar and an opt in form in the middle of the post and then they just go kind of sub-consciously think that they’re here to take something from me. But when you only give them the opt in form when they say hi I’d like to opt in in obviously much better terms, then they look at that like a giving page, right? It’s like saying I have clicked this button saying that I would love to give you my email address so that you can send me this thing. That’s the first reason. The second reason is that everybody – well, not everybody, and I am working on this process of not generalizing, but so many people believe that the most important thing that you need to do, the most important action as a business, is to get people to buy something. And then a lot of people think that the main action is to get people to opt in, and those are the two fantastic things but really the most important thing that you can do as a business is to get your visitors to make a decision, okay? And that can be a decision about buying, opting and clicking whatever that is. And so the two-step opt in forces people to make a decision. Because if the opt in box is visible right on the page, so they go that page, click around just leave. But the minute they click that button or click that link, that makes that opt in form appear, they are forced to make a decision about whether or not they want to opt in. They can only do one of two things, they can either say no and click the X on the form or they can enter their email address. And the reality is, 100% of the people who don’t make a decision of whether to opt in or not on their site, will not opt in on your site. Right? So I have to say that again because it is confusing. 100% of people who don’t make a decision about whether or not to opt in on your site will not opt in on your site. But some percentages who do make the decision to opt in to your site about whether or not to opt in to your site will opt in on your site. So, this is super interesting. If you got 100% of the people in the world to make some decision about whether or not to opt in to your site, you can have the world’s worst conversion rate and still have the biggest mailing list of anybody in the universe because you would have done that magical thing which is getting people to make that decision. So that is kind of the second reason. And the third reason is that two-step opt in creates something called behavioral inertia. If you could get somebody to commit at a low level of commitment, which clicking on a link or clicking on a button is a very low level of commitment- we’ve been doing that, we do it all day long, right? So if you can get somebody to make a low level of commitment by clicking on a link or a button, the likelihood that you’ll get them to commit at a higher level of commitment by opting in increases significantly because again they are in this pattern of compliance; they have already clicked the button, they might as well opt in. And I have an extensive sales background, I was in sales for years and years and the thing about that is that one of the first techniques that you ever learn in sales is something called the Yes Ladder. So you get people to say yes to a bunch of little things that don’t really mean much, that are so easy to say yes to, that you know people are going to say yes to, and then when you ask them to buy, since they already are in this pattern of saying yes, yes, yes, yes, it is much easier to ask them if they are going to buy. But if you are in a pattern of yes, yes, yes, yes and then you want to switch to no, it is actually much more difficult and requires a lot of thought. So that is kind of the whole thing of how or why our Lead Boxes work so well.

James: Yeah, well, I am going to add testament to this almost with kind of version 1.0 of what you are taking about. I guess if we can refer our listeners to the episode page of Traffic Jam, what they’ll find at the bottom of the show notes, they’ll find a button that says Subscribe and Download MP3 & Transcript of This Episode – or something to that extent, and that just leads people to a Lead Page, not actually a Lead Box in this instance but that page, because as you said, someone compliantly led to someone once they’ve taken that action to a decision head to head either to close the page or go to opt in, I think we are getting around somewhere 70%-80% conversion rate on average on those pages which is absolutely crazy numbers! So for that exact reasons there’s no other way for those yes I want it and no I don’t – most are going yes I want it.

Tim: Yeah, you know what I love about that is that is something that when we implemented something very similar to that in Lead Pages, we found that we took our site wide opt in rate from half a percent to 10% which is unbelievable and the only way that we did that and it only took a month, and the way that we did that is by doing specific lead magnets, specific give aways at a bottom of each blog post, just like what you’re mentioning, the specific transcript. And one way to take that even further James is I would encourage you, we were just like you, we were getting around 70% conversion when at the bottom of the blog post we were linking to a landing page. We switched it to Lead Boxes at the bottom of each blog post, and it went up relatively 30% so we had about 90% – 95% conversion rate with the Lead Boxes so I would encourage giving that a shot.

James: So what other lessons are there other than drawing people to a decision building compliance? Was there another reason that that’s been successful for me and it was so successful for you is that the offer is extremely relevant to the piece of content that they are viewing on that page?

Tim: Yeah! That is exactly right. So what we do with Conversion Cast, which is our podcast at Lead Pages, what we do is at every episode is that each episode is kind of one tactic. So you expanded and we talked about a different other things- I am a simpleton. So for our podcast, I only can talk about one tactic before my brain shuts off so what we do is at the bottom of the blog post and actually about seven different times throughout the blog post, there is a link to a Lead Box and we give away something. Sometimes it is a screenshot of that tactic if it is a really, really cool split test like with James Schramko, he was a guest at our show and he had a split test between two landing pages – one had a background with an image of him, one had plain, nothing on it background, and they converted exactly the same which is really interesting but they converted at 76% from his list which is unbelievable. Just screenshots of that and a quick breakdown that my assistant wrote. Right, so she wrote just a breakdown of the episode. It’s not even a transcript, it’s just here’s what it was, who the guest is, what the task was, what the results were and what you should take away from it. And we give it away and what we’re getting is in between 70% – 98% conversion rate. So yes, specific give away to what you are giving. And you can really give away anything. So think about this, so for example let’s say you have a blog where you teach people how to build stuff or your business is tools or something like that. Well what you can do is you can have a blog post like how to build a picnic table and then at the bottom of the blog post have people opt in to download a pdf checklist that they can print out and take to the hardware store with them to make sure they get all the right supplies. Right? Or you could do like what you are doing, a transcript, that is a great one! People are always like, it takes me another hour to build this lead give away. First off, if it takes you an hour to get a 70% conversion rate, then you are doing something wrong. Second off, instead of doing a transcript, if you’re not doing a podcast and just a blog, just take that blog post, put it in to a pdf and give away that pdf in exchange for people to give in their email addresses. And people say to me all the time, why would people want to email their email address to download if they’ve already read the blog post because it is right there? Yes, but people love to possess things so people want something they can download and put on their hard drive so you can do something like that. You could do a questionnaire, you could do a quiz – I mean there are so many different things that you can do but when you do something specific for the blog post instead of just your generic give away, your conversion rate will be unbelievable!

James: Yeah, that’s nuts! I mean, again, going back to the example I gave, that transcript that people download, it’s also embedded in the post. It’s there for people to view and I guess this is a strong lesson to listeners out there, you don’t need to go and create this 25- series video sequence or a 60- page e-book guide. This stuff can be simple and easy. It doesn’t need to take a huge amount of effort, right?

Tim: Yeah, that is right. The highest converting landing page that we have ever done at Lead Pages – the giveaway, the Lead Magnet as we call it- is a one page pdf and it was a list of 4 or 5 tools that we use to make all of our videos. So it had maybe 200 words of actual text on it and it had one picture of each of the tools which were like a Logitech webcam and all these stuff. It was as simple as the tools and that has out converted a free video course that took us a month to give away, it outperformed an e-book that took us 2 weeks to give away and the one that just still drives me crazy, Clay Collins, who is the CEO of Lead Pages, he once gave away an hour of his time, so an hour of coaching with the CEO of a 7-figure business was giving away an hour of his time and we’ve got a higher conversion rate for a one page pdf list of tools.

James: Now that is absolutely insane! And I guess people now are faced with so many offers in front of them on websites, I mean there is opportunity to opt in and consume all over the place but when you make that decision to opt in you’re also making that commitment yourself to consume something so it is almost like I have to give up 20 hours of my time to get my way to that video sequence whereas it is instantaneous and can get to it quickly, there is a lot less resistance there for someone looking to opt in, right?

Tim: Yeah that is exactly it. It’ simple and you can consume it very quickly, and the other thing is, we talked about that decision. If you have a landing page to give away a list of five tools, you can’t write a long form sales letter to give that away and you can’t have a 25-minute video to give it away. You almost have to have your landing page to be very simple and so a landing page for a list of five tools can be something like free report reveals five tools that I use to create my videos including my $80 HD Video Camera and then the button just simply says, send me the list of tools. And it makes it so easy to make a decision. They don’t have to read the whole page or watch the whole video, they just have to go, well, and “do I want the list of five tools?” And then suddenly that decision becomes easy and they make it and then of course more apt to make the decision they make.

James: Yeah. Got it. I think you run a webinar, right Tim? It’s called The Foremost Important Pages in Your Business? We’ve perhaps mentioned a couple already. Outside those that we have mentioned already, what other pages can we kind of optimize in our business for lead generation?

Tim: Sure. So the one that I was just talking about we called the resource guide landing page and we give away a list of tools- and I am going to encourage everybody, no matter what your business is, to give away a list of five tools, four tools, or eight tools or whatever you want. It will outperform whatever you are doing right now and you can set it up seriously within minutes. So that is the first one. The third one that we talked about is the webinar registration page which again, has been the highest thing that we have ever seen ever. I mean it outperforms everything. But the second one, that we have not mentioned yet, is the lesson page, and this is the page that we use for our auto-responder sequence right now. If you view opt in, if you go to leadpages.net for example and you go to the top there is a link that says free tutorial and you opt in, we send you a video and we send you one every three days and I think it is 7 videos, I am not a 100% sure, but I recommend a minimum of six and here is how it works. If somebody opts in, right away they get that resource, right? And we all know how to do it – Infusionsoft, Aweber, or whatever you are using. So that happens that way, but then three days after they opt in, they are going to get an email from you, and the email doesn’t have to be complex. It could be very simple. It could be something within the lines of, “hey, we hope you enjoyed that list of tools (obviously call whatever it actually is – don’t call it that list of tools) but – we hope you enjoyed the list of five tools that we use to create all of our videos. We want to give you something else fantastic to help you create your journey of creating free videos so we created this awesome course that is 7 parts and part 1 is going to teach you how to do XY&Z, click here to check out Part 1.” And then in the PS you go “don’t worry Part 2 will be coming in just a few days.” That’s it! And then you link to this Lessons Page. What the Lesson page is, and obviously we eat our own dog food – so we have a template inside of Lead Pages and you could hire a developer to create it if you wanted to – or you could just use Lead Pages and what that does is so simple. On the page, the four main elements that are important, or actually I am going to tell you five, one is it should say right on the page what part they are on and how many parts there are in the course. So for example if you’ve got a 7-part course, the first lesson should say Part 1 of 7. And that is important because you want people to know that you are not going to send them 700 thousand parts, right? They need to know there are seven parts, they’re going to get all of them, and they are on Part 1. The second thing is that it should have a progress bar. And the thing about the progress bar is that human psychology tends not to like things that are incomplete and so if there is a progress bar on that page and people open these emails and they will want to open all of the emails and watch all of the videos because they want to feel that they have completed it. And that progress bar will help them feel like they have completed it so that is really important. The next thing is that social sharing buttons on it. But you don’t want your social sharing buttons to link to that lesson because if somebody is on Part 3 and they click like on Facebook, you don’t want all of their friends to just be able to hop in and watch Part 3, right? You want them to (1) opt in, and (2) watch the entire course. So, our lesson pages have those social sharing buttons that link to the landing page itself so all of their friends have to opt in so it grows your list and it makes sure that people consume all of your content. The fourth thing is that comments below the video so that people can leave comments from Facebook. And again, those comments show up like people are commenting on your landing page but they also, if someone leaves a comment on video two, they’ve got the same comment on all of the videos. So that is super powerful. And the fifth part is a combination of a video and a buy now button. So what you are going to do is have a video lesson, so if you have seven of them, you’re going to have seven different video lessons and in each lesson spend about three minutes, giving some kind of high quality lesson that stands alone. This would be easy to do in any business because you’re the expert so don’t feel like you are not sure what content to do. Just about anything that you can give away that is specific, that is going to help solve one specific problem, that video needs to solve one specific problem, not a whole bunch of them, but just one specific problem. Do that in the first two minutes and then on the last minute tell people what they would get by buying your product or whatever it is that you do, tell them what they would get by buying your product or hiring you or whatever it is that you do, tell them if they click the button below the video that they are going to take XY&Z. and it will only take a minute and don’t make it a long pitch – just a simple pitch and then below the video they’ll be sent to your sales page and your shopping cart or your PayPal or whatever it is and that kind of auto-responder sequence that we have is bringing our business in over ten thousands of dollars per day in revenue, just from one channel. And so that’s why at the beginning of this discussion I said I think webinars are important and they are absolutely something that you need to be doing but first, you should have your auto responder sequence in place because if you are bringing in ten thousand dollars of revenue per day every single day then what you can do is with peace of mind knowing that your automated sequence that you don’t have to do anything for anymore is always working for you and now you can try different webinars. I am doing anywhere between 1-10 webinars every single day and most of them are different and we can do that knowing confidently that we always have a consistent revenue stream that is always working. So that is kind of the second page that I encourage people to work on.

James: Nice! For someone who’s a bit over awed by the thought of creating video content right now or putting content together, could you use a pre-existing content to load up to that sequence at least initially?

Tim: Absolutely! What I would encourage you to do though is make sure that each video has some kind of a small sales pitch at the end of it and people will tell you no, don’t do that. Run it like a launch, only have people buying from the 4^th sequence but we get so many people that buy on video 1 on video 2 or video 3 that I would definitely encourage it. The way to do that is take your existing content, it can be something that you already have, and I don’t care what it is. Take existing content, have it in there, and use something that we call the magic buy button, I mean, it is to do with Lead Pages, it is not as easy to do without but you can find a developer that can do it but make it so that let’s say if you don’t want to do videos, you want to do like an existing blog post thing, that would be okay, just make sure that you figure out how long it takes for somebody to read a certain part of the blog post and then when there is a little pitch for your product, you set it up so that a buy now button will then appear on the page at that point. So what we do is we know our videos have three minutes of content and then right at that three- minute mark the pitch comes in so we’ve got it set up so that when somebody gets to the video, the buy now mark then appears and the reason why that works is that it makes it so your content just looks like a regular content, it does not look like a sales page so that means people will consume all of your content, they will sit there, they will read your blog post or they will watch your video or listen to your podcast or whatever that is, and they are not clicking around prejudging the clicking process. They are consuming your content, you are doing a good job of giving them value and then you make your pitch at the end and your pitch is really good and strong and then that magic buy button appears like oh there it is I might as well buy from here.

James: Yeah, well I guess that is the giving versus the receiving page in action again, right? There is nothing sales-y about the content in some page which is another form of content other than a video when you first come to it so it is certainly comforting to do that. Tim, I want to ask you about conversion optimization, something that you’ve got a deep knowledge in, what sort of elements of a webpage do you recommend that people look at first because so many can of course alter the conversion rates, what sort of elements should we get started with testing first of all?

Tim: Yeah, I am going to tell you the number one element that you should be testing right away and probably on every one of your pages, obviously focus on your money pages like your landing pages, and your sales pages and your webinar registration pages but the number one element that we have found that has the most immediate and quick and just powerful impact is button copy. We’ve done an extensive testing on button copy and a lot of the old faithfuls are not working as they used to so we found a bunch of different examples of what works so here’s kind of the first one that has really proven to be valuable is point of view. So we found that – here’s an example, let’s say on the button you found one that says you know – give me the guide or something like that. Here’s another example, create my account versus a button that says create your account and I love studying copywriting, I think it is fascinating and there is an amazing copywriter named Eugene Schwartz and he said that you need to enter the conversation that the prospect is having in his own mind. So when somebody is looking at a button, they’re not going I want to create your account, they’re going I want to create my account. And so, when you are writing button copy, I would encourage you to test something like point of view. Have it as if they were saying it. And there are a lot of different ways to do this. We are now in the middle of testing a webinar registration page to see if it works the same and I am very confident that it will. Another example is if you were to do something along the lines of start your 30 day trial versus my free 30 day trial. Again we did a split test with this one with one of our customers and they got 90% more sign ups with start my 30 day trial than start your 30 day trial. So that was really big. Another one was immediacy. A lot of people, if you are launching a new product or you are launching a new website is they will put up a coming soon page but what a lot of people would do is they’ll say, you know, enter your email address to be notified and you’ll know when our page is live or when this new product comes out. That probably works great for apple and that probably works great for really established brands that people get really excited about but the reality is, for most companies and most brands, people are not sitting around waiting for your launch. People are not like, “oh my god, please notify me about the next time you are going to launch a new info-product.” Right? I mean, they are just not doing it even for fairly well established brands that is still not the case. We found that having a button text that says notify me actually doesn’t work well because it is kind of like I don’t know when it is out, I don’t know I am getting an email but Tell me more is immediate. Tell me more means I am going to find out something new right now, I am getting new information. So we tested that, and with a lot of traffic actually we found out that tell me more got 30% more sign ups and kind of the third element of button copy that we found that works really well is concreteness. For a long time the reigning champion of kind of the button copy for kind of the free giveaway like a download was free instant access and you’ll still see that in a lot of places. We’ve done a ridiculous amount of split testing free instant access versus download now and across the board we are seeing download now get 90% higher conversion rate than free instant access because I don’t know what free instant access is. What is free instant access? What am I getting access to? When I get it, what am I going to see? What am I going to get? But download now is very clear. When I click that I am getting to download now. So that is kind of the first element of testing button copy. The other copy I would encourage you to test, one would be, obviously the headline on your landing page or your sales page. We found that to have a significant impact on conversions. And then the other one, which I go back and forth and between is the background. So if you have a page that the background is relevant then that would be it, or if not, if you don’t have a background then you can get a lot of other elements. The other thing would be kind of be the floating element, that would be either the video, if you’ve got a video page or an image of the giveaway or an image of you and what we found to be important there is that either it is a very enticing, compelling image, or it is something that directs people to the call to action. So one thing that we have been testing a lot is, and I have found this to work every single time, is instead of having an image of the lead magnet, we’ve tested the image, like the cover of the lead magnet versus the image of the lead magnet kind of grayed out and grayed out in the background with clear copy that says download and an arrow pointing to the button and we have found that to convert incredibly well because it drives the eye to the call to action.

James: Yeah, well that would make total sense, I am sure there’s plenty of examples of these pages with these actions so I am going to encourage customers to head on over to LeadPages.net to check those out. But Tim, I don’t want to leave this conversation without asking you about traffic because we are of course a traffic jam podcast. If peek right now inside the analytics for LeadPages.net, what would I find being your top traffic source right now?

Tim: I would probably say, and this is tough for me because I don’t do a lot with our traffic, but if I were to guess, I would say our number 1 traffic source would be probably from SEO, so we are really crushing it in on SEO. All of the top keywords, we are on the front page of Google and very close to the top. Maybe that’s it but I will share with you something that might be valuable in terms of traffic is that we have found, right now we’ve done a lot of Facebook ads to Facebook tabs. So we have landing pages inside of Facebook pages and the conversion with that traffic coming from Facebook ads to a Facebook page is just unbelievable! It crushes any other kind of paid traffic that we’ve been doing.

James: Yeah, well that would make sense completely, keeping people within an environment that they have come from certainly builds trust which I am sure would affect conversions so a good lesson there to learn to leave us. Tim, I want to close things out now, you have been extremely generous with your time and your expertise. Where can people find out a little bit more about you and connect with you on the inter-webs?

Tim: Absolutely! Well the best place I would say LeadPages.net but if you want a bit more of training and we’re going to be doing that webinar that you mentioned, we are going to be indepth and I am going to break down those pages. We are going to be doing a live training coming up on Thursday so if you want to check that out, go to LeadPages.net/ webinar and you’ll get a chance to check out that live training with yours truly and I do a Q&A and answer questions all throughout the webinar so it is going to be a lot of fun.

James: Tim, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show. Listeners, to find out more about Tim and to links to all of the resources mentioned in today’s show. Head on over to Traffic JamCast.com and select episode page 42.

So that was Tim Paige with conversion lessons galore in that interview, I am sure you would agree. If you did manage to take away one thing from the show that could potentially lift your business 25% – 50% over the next six months or so, then I think you were listening with your fingers in your ears. Thank you guys as always for listening in to this episode. I’ll be back again with another show in about seven days from now where I think we can have copywriting on the agenda so make sure you tune back in for that one. In the meantime subscribe via iTunes and Stitcher radio and you can do that by heading on to TrafficJamCast.com/iTunes or TrafficJamCast.com/Stitcher. For a direct link for all Traffic Jam episodes go to TrafficJamCast.com where you can join the discussion on this episode, get links to all the resources mentioned today and download a full transcript of the show. Also, head on over to the main website, Veravo.com for more traffic tips and training and to learn how I can help you get more traffic to your website. We of course end this week’s show with the Traffic Jam and it’s the track chosen of course this week by Tim Paige. He’s picked a track by the Ataris and the track title is called In This Diary so enjoy the track to play out the show and I’ll see you back here again real soon!